Private Client Risk & Resilience
Private Client Risk & Resilience
Demystifying Trustee Liability Risk and Wealth Transfer Vehicles with Judy Pearson, CEO of Nomadx
In this episode of the Private Client Risk and Resilience podcast, your host Kurt Thoennessen welcomes Judy Pearson from Nomadx, a trusted name in the world of trustee liability insurance. Judy shares her expertise on trustee liability exposure and complex wealth transfer vehicles, shedding light on an increasingly crucial topic in the realm of asset protection and estate planning. As clients seek advice on safeguarding their wealth through trusts and LLCs, Judy delves into the nuances of these structures, their responsibilities, and the fiduciary duties that come with them. You'll gain valuable insights into the need for specialized insurance solutions, the complexities of trustee roles, and the importance of cybersecurity preparedness in the trustee space. Listen in to explore this compelling discussion and discover how to address trustee liability with the right coverage and insights. To learn more about trustee liability and how to get in touch with Judy Pearson, visit the Nomadx website https://www.balanceuw.com/nomadx or reach out to Judy directly via email JPearson@balanceuw.com or by phone (303-917-7776).
There are more wealthy people today than ever before in the history of the world. The risks they are exposed to through the assets they acquire and their unique lifestyles are significant. The bigger the asset, the bigger the potential loss. The bigger the potential loss, the more complicated the mechanisms for protecting those assets becomes. This show seeks to uncover the risks that successful people face. So we can provide some guidance towards minimizing, mitigating and transferring them. From Coverage contracts and carriers to client experience, technology and claims, we will cover it all. Whether you're an agent looking to hone your skills or someone with significant wealth to protect, I hope this show becomes a valuable resource you can come to rely on to help you protect yourself, your family, and your clients. Well, welcome back to the private client risk and resilience podcast. My name is Kurt Thoennessen, and I am your host of this amazing show. Thanks again for tuning in today. Today we are on the eve of Halloween otherwise known as Mischief Night. But tomorrow is Halloween, which I'm excited for. I'm excited to see my kids go out and have fun, they're going to they're going to be trick or treating in the neighborhood and with their friends. So that'll be that'll be fun. But even more exciting, I think for me, and for you, Judy, potentially as well, is we are on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the private Risk Management Association Summit coming up this next weekend. So, you know, I've been a member of the prma since it started back in 2015 or so. And so this is a big, big year for the association. And there's gonna be a lot of people there. So it's gonna be great. And so anyway, as we're, we're leading up to the conference, just kind of cool that we're having this conversation, and we'll see each other in a few days. So, and with that, I and I know I'm kind of talking about my guests here as though everybody knows that she's here. But I'm really excited to have Judy Pearson from pneumatics. On on the podcast, and really looking forward to having the conversation today. And it's trustee liability. And and so looking forward to hearing your expertise. So as we get started, Judy, if I if I could ask you just to give us a little bit of your background and and how you got to where you are today with pneumatics.
Judy Pearson:Well, thank you so much for including the and I really excited about this year's prma conference, we have over 600 people attending the issues that are driving the private client world today are so much more complex than they were call it 10 years ago. And so thank you for having me on because this is just one of the pieces of the ever changing landscape. So my background I'm going to go through really quickly. But in some ways, everything I've done has led up to what I'm doing today. So the first 20 years of my career, I spent handling directors and officers liability insurance on a global basis, not just from an underwriting perspective, but from a broker perspective. And when I started in 1982, we were teaching boards of directors, what their fiduciary duties were, and back then not so many boards of directors were buying DNO insurance and it wasn't until merger mania of the 80s. Did we get the construct of what we have today? And the reason why I mentioned that is because of what's happening in the world of wealth transfer vehicles. I believe that trustee liability today is like DNO was back in 1982. There's a huge similarity between a board of directors and their liability to shareholders as trustees are to beneficiaries. And so I'm here excited to really help people understand what the world looks like what the complexities look like, and how to talk to our clients about learning what their roles and responsibilities are. And liabilities. I did that for 20 years. I left in year 2000 And I co founded a company that provided title insurance for fine art and other important collectibles. And the only reason why I mentioned that today is that gave me really good insight into tax trust and estate issues for personal property. And when you tie together what's happening from a fiduciary duty perspective, and understanding the tax trust and estate issues confronting our clients today. it, it gets completely tied together in what we're trying to accomplish with pneumatics. Today, in terms of risk management, helping our clients identify their exposures, helping them understand how we can mitigate them even before insurance. And then finally, what can't be mitigated, we can transfer the risk.
Kurt Thoennessen:It's excellent. And I agree with you that this is becoming more and more of a topic. I just recall talking to many, many clients over the last few years, where they asked a lot of them are asking the questions, you know, what's the benefit of putting a house into a trust or an LLC? And, you know, I've often given the answer, it's privacy. There's several reasons why people do it. But you really need to talk to an attorney to determine if that's the right strategy for you. So it is a big topic. And it's one that I as an advisor, want to understand better. And I think our clients really are looking to us for some advice on this, and especially from the risk management and the insurance perspective. So as we start and kind of with that as the framework, I thought we'd start with just a basic question. And that is, what is a trustee?
Judy Pearson:It's a great question. And it sounds fairly simple. But let's start with what is a trust. A trust is really a wealth transfer vehicle. And there are lots of different ways that you can transfer your assets. There's a lot of reasons why you would choose different structures. But to make it easy, a trust is a wealth transfer vehicle, it is a contract, it is not an entity, which is really important to understand. But what you have is a wealth owner who has an estate, you know, we're really targeting the more complex clients. So let's just start with a taxable estate, which is usually over $10 million. They take their assets, and put it into a trust. And there's two different kinds of trusts that the private client folks are dealing with. And one is an irrevocable trust, which is also synonymous with a living trust, or an irrevocable trust. And the reason why this is important is heir of a revocable trust, the Grand Tours are really not taking the assets out of their state at this point. And they also have the ability to manage those assets. So when a client is asking a property casualty insurance advisor, what do I need to do in terms of protecting my property that's in a living trust or a revocable trust? I think the questions are different than if it is an irrevocable trust, because an irrevocable trust means that they've taken the assets out of their estate. And those assets are being managed by an independent trustee, in order to keep the tax structure in place. And in that case, the trustee has titled to and control of the assets in the trust. And they are responsible to manage those trust assets, everything from procuring the appropriate insurance, to looking over the assets every year to making sure that they're protected in any way possible, whether it be from, you know, fire or wind or other people coming in and trying to take over the assets and a variety of reasons. So when we start thinking about all the liabilities, and what we're getting to, it is a struct trustees responsibility to manage these assets. And they're the ones that have title to the assets. And the people that they have, are really protecting now are not necessarily the wealth owner, but the beneficiary. And the beneficiary can be anything from legal errors, to 501 C threes to family trusts to private trust companies. So it gets fairly complicated. When we start asking the questions to find out who are the beneficiaries, and what structure are they in to make sure that we're providing the appropriate insurance?
Kurt Thoennessen:That's really interesting. Just just the distinction there between revocable and irrevocable trust and that there should be different questions asked, you know, and Uh, just to paraphrase a little bit, it's if it's a revocable trust the grantor or the owner of the asset, the person who owns the home is really still involved in the decisions right there. And so that's the revocable trust. But if it's an irrevocable trust, then the grantor might not be living anymore. And there's someone else, the trustee who is managing that asset. And so then the questions become, you know, what do we need to protect from that standpoint? I guess, you know, that's where the trustee liability can come into place. So I get is there a trustee involved? If it is, if there's a revocable trust,
Judy Pearson:there are trustees, but more often than not, it's still the wealth owners that are the trustees, they do sometimes put in place a successor trustee in case that person doesn't have the ability to manage their assets anymore. Or the next step is if they do pass, it automatically goes into generally an irrevocable trust. So again, part of the questions are, where are we at in the lifecycle of our families, to understand what the implications are, if it's a relatively relatively young person, 50s 60s, what have you 40s that are doing their estate plan, they may be very involved, and they still have control of the assets. If they're getting to be more elderly, we might start seeing some of these transitions hit and where the trustee, an independent trustee becomes more involved in the process. And the other thing I want to talk about is we do get very focused on the property and the general liability side of it. But I also want to raise my hand to people with all the wealth is transferring intergenerationally, there are millions of trusts and millions of Trustees. And it's an opportunity for our clients, our property casualty insurance brokers and advisors to actually advise these clients and have a new business opportunity, and actually one that we can solve in this very difficult properties scenario. So I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there's really two different things that we're talking about. It's the trustees their roles, responsibilities and liabilities. And then how do we handle the property and liability side for the more traditional side? Does that make sense?
Kurt Thoennessen:Absolutely. And I and I think you brought up a good point, which is that there is a huge wealth transfer going on right now. And that's only going to continue to happen. And with that wealth transfer, there are lots of trusts being created lots of these legal entities that wealthy people are putting their assets in, as they're designing their estate plans. And so that means that there's going to be a lot of trustees created in this process. And so I completely agree with you, this is a great opportunity for us as risk managers to bring this knowledge to bring this advice to our clients, and people who that who rely on us for our risk management expertise. So let's talk a little bit about the liability as you said, that's really where your expertise is. So as they're designing his estate plans, and they're putting assets into trust these vehicles your revocable trust, revocable trust, I assume this is also LLCs and FLPs, family limited partnerships and corporations. What are their responsibilities?
Judy Pearson:So I'm going to combine that with two thoughts. So the first thing that I want to emphasize is if you're a trustee, you are a fiduciary. And why is that important? If you're a fiduciary, fiduciary, you are held to the highest level of the law, and you do have personal responsibility, and you have fiduciary duties, you have fiduciary duties of loyalty, to make sure that you're looking at the best interest of the beneficiaries. You have the duty of care to make sure you're operating with prudence, with skill with caution, you're researching these things, and duty of impartiality, which means you're treating all the beneficiaries equally. That doesn't mean the same, it means equally. And I start with this because it's the context of what a fiduciary is, what a trustee is, what their duties are, and what their liabilities are. But then you say, Well, what are they supposed to do? If you have a traditional trust? There's four basic roles in responsibilities. Its investment, reporting, distribution, and administration. And all those things sound really easy. As long as you have a very straightforward, trust marketable securities, or you have a harmonious family, everybody gets along and things are good. But it gets very complicated very quickly for our trustees. And so the first thing I talk about is making sure that they get real education about their roles, responsible responsibilities and liabilities. And back to the P and C, it's really hard to are really easy, actually, to get crossways on the impartiality piece of it, think about the house that everybody's talking about, and the trustees responsibility responsible, perhaps, for? How do you ensure all the contents when one for beneficiaries has all the contents and somebody else only has, you know, 10%, or the primary beneficiary has, you know, artwork and things that are in the house, and somebody else has all the toys, like the boats, and the, you know, water toys, and things like that, right? There's an imbalance between what's the liability? And how do you protect it, it's just a very easy example of how some of these duties can get really complex right away. So but when you go back to the property casualty side of it, that that trustee has to get the insurance in this today in today's world, where it's way more complex, and maybe they have to decide on deductibles, or how much or if they're going to get insurance or some of those other things, it better be very well documented on the decision making process of why they did, either under the spectrum, either they spent a lot of money to ensure everything is protected 100%, or they chose to do things that might create liabilities for the assets that are in the trust, independent of the home because they have a big deductible or didn't buy flood or all the other decisions people are making today because of the complexity of where families have homes.
Kurt Thoennessen:Wow, there's a lot there that you that you just said. One thing that I do want to draw attention to was that you mentioned that fiduciaries have a personal liability. And so when I hear that, I say, Well, isn't there any coverage for this? Through the personal umbrella? Or through the homeowners policy?
Judy Pearson:The answer is there's absolutely not. And I say that because a trustee is a professional service, whether you're paid or not, it's still professional service. So when you start looking at the different policies, you realize that there are usually Professional Liability type exclusions, whether they're on a primary basis, or whether they're on the umbrella basis. The other thing that I see people getting confused with is very often in the very good underwriting insurers called Chubb pure or what have you. There's a clause that we'll cover individuals when they're serving in a nonprofit role. And they will say it also covers trustee liability. But that is very specific to a non compensated, generally, Family Foundation. So all they're trying to say is, if you're serving as a director, officer, and you're volunteering your time for a nonprofit, and it happens to be that nonprofit, is structured slightly differently, and they're called trustees, not board of directors, they're going to cover you, but this is not intended to cover a trustee liability. So I see a lot of confusion between with my brokers when they see Oh, but it covers trustee liability. It's a different kind of trustee liability.
Kurt Thoennessen:Wow, that's really important to know. That's really important to know. And, you know, because I talked to clients who have trusts and these different vehicles, and sometimes it's a family member who is the trustee, or a friend or the CPA or the financial advisor, I and so maybe not a lot of thought is put into how those those relationships are set up. If they are paid positions. Then this type of thing is out obviously very important. You know, who else are the trustees that are that are being chosen for this responsibility?
Judy Pearson:Yeah, so we kind of see three categories. Category One is friends and family. And I'll just raise my hand, I know it's not our job to be talking about these things. But I do when I do talk with my trustees. It is such a complex role and responsibility, that I really hope we don't have too many family members that are uneducated, or that aren't paired with somebody who really has a background. So what I mean by that is a family member who's a co trustee with a Trust Company, then they've got a platform for the roles, responsibilities, what they have to do. And it's it's something that uncomfortable ensuring family or friends, if they're sophisticated business associates, I totally get it. But oftentimes, they're not. They're just a friend of the family that they think they know, there's a lot of liability that gets created. So I do when I'm talking with some of my trustees try and kind of encourage them, if they don't have education to get education, there's lots of places you can get education, whether it be the service providers, or the ITA, which is the independent trustee alliance is trying to help trustees learn about all of this. But anyway, that's category one. Category Two is the professionals that you're talking about. We're seeing a lot of lawyers CPAs, even RIA starting to be asked to serve as trustee. And a lot of them are doing it either because they've had a very long relationship with our clients. Or it's a way to have a sticky relationship into the next generation. And so then the question becomes, I'm sure you'll all get confronted with this. Well, if I'm within a professional service organization, doesn't my policy cover me? And the answer is just like every other insurance policy that we look at it, it's the devils are in the details. So sometimes it will cover trustee but not all the different roles and responsibilities. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes there's a huge deductible and then you have to think about who's responsible for that deductible. The other thing that our clients are saying is, but aren't I indemnified through the trust. Sometimes your indemnify, through the trust, sometimes you're not indemnified. But if there is a specific indemnification, the only thing I would raise my hand on is it is uninsurable, if somebody is alleged to have performed gross negligence or intentional misconduct, and if that is alleged, you can't use trust assets to indemnify until final adjudication. And so an insurance policy can step forward, advanced defense costs until there's final adjudication that those things were committed. And rarely does it ever get to that point, because it's usually settled before. But the fiduciary litigators are putting that in, so that it kind of squeezes the trustee in terms of our do they want to use their personal assets to defend a claim. So there isn't dedication, it's important that the trust document have indemnification. But it's still not a full solution.
Kurt Thoennessen:Well, and what I hear you saying is that there's a lot of risk and being a trustee. You have to be educated, you have to know what you're doing. Because like you said before, there's reporting requirements, there's administration, there's a lot of responsibility. And a lot of power. If you're dealing with these very valuable assets. For families that have been trusted those assets, you there's a lot of power in that was in that position. There are some laws that do regulate this area, aren't there? I think you mentioned one to me before as a corporate Transparency Act, you know, is this is this an area where there could be a pitfall for a trustee?
Judy Pearson:Yeah. So, straws are regulated on a state by state basis. And it gets a little bit complex in the in the sense of, there are federal laws that are dictating what should be on a federal basis. And then each state has the ability to dot some heart are all of the federal rules. But also many of our families now have international situations right either there, you know, families that created their wealth outside the United States, but have beneficiaries in the United States, or we have people who are the wealth was created in the United States, but are living outside of the United States. So then you have international law. So that's when you look at the liability of a trustee and what laws are going to be used to regulate any type of structure. But then what's happening is, because all these vehicles are because all this wealth, the incredible amount of wealth, it's transferring, you know, some will say anywhere between 30 to$90 trillion. Over the next two decades, now, I said trillion dollars, those are real numbers, right. And so governments are looking at these very carefully. And there have been a lot of new laws that create new structures, like you were saying earlier, to create privacy, to create control over the assets. So our wealthier clients might be using structures that are called a directed trust structure, which actually bifurcates all these roles in roles and responsibilities. And they're intending to try and reduce liability. But these are all going to be tested over time. And so while these laws are incredibly progressive in a really great way, and really gives our clients a lot of opportunity to take more control their generational transfer, they're going to be tested. So that's number one. Number two, is, from a regulatory perspective, we're seeing new laws get implemented. So one of which is the prudent investor role, where trustees are now being held responsible to make sure that they're following the prudent investor rule. Secondly, what you were talking about was the corporate Transparency Act. And what that act did, it was enacted last January, to be implemented this coming January. And it's all about reporting, beneficial ownership for LLCs. So any trust that has LLCs that are holding assets, the trustees have to figure out who is the reporting entity. And as a trustee, they're probably part of the reporting entity of the beneficial ownership. And it's kind of surprising, there are a lot of in the trust and estate circles. There's a lot of conversation going on about that. But it's also not necessarily getting to all of our trustees. So that's something that comes with it both criminal and civil penalties. So it's a big deal, and people need to learn about it. And then the other thing that we didn't really think about until the failure of some of the banks earlier this year, is custody, right? If you have assets in a bank in excess of$250 million, or $250,000, are you protected by access FDIC insurance? And as these banks have failed, there have been revisions to what that means. And so there's probably more protection today than might have been a few years ago, but as a trustee, you're making decisions on where custody is, and you need to understand that. And this these kinds of things are just scratching the surface, which is why I keep going back to there's a lot of similarities between DNO insurance and Trustee liability. It sounds really complicated. There's a way to talk about this with our clients in a much more simplified fashion, which is simply as a trustee. You have personal liability, you need to know what your roles and responsibilities are. And we have a solution for you.
Kurt Thoennessen:I like that. Simplify it make it simple. Because you're absolutely right. I mean, this is a complex issue. It's a complex topic. And one that is difficult to explain if you if you want to get in into all the nuts and bolts, you know, and just thinking and maybe you have an example of this but just thinking through a high net worth family, they might have several different trusts that they have assets in In the vacation home, that several siblings are involved with the ownership of the vacation home, a yacht, you know, could have many different owners as well. And there could be a trust involved there. I. So I, one question I have is, if you're setting up a trustee liability policy, can you insure multiple trusts and multiple trustees under that one policy? Or do you need to have a separate policy for every trustee?
Judy Pearson:That's a great question. And if you're going out, I'm going to call it the parent trust, that goes all the way down to the child trust now, I mean, parent child relationship. I mean, there's a significant trust that splits off into other trusts. And there's similar trustees and similar beneficiaries, we can write that under one policy, because it's all about the same decisions. And I also want to talk about, there are new structures that we keep seeing. And so in certain states, depending on where these trusts are set up, some people are doing what's called a purpose trust, to put in vacation homes and boats and cars and things like that. And a purpose trust is really there for ownership. There are no beneficiaries, there's only trustees that are set up to manage these. And the whole concept of purpose trust, started to evolve, because of these really complex situations where these assets that don't really fall neatly into the envelope that we're used to working in. So again, it's kind of just asking questions about what kind of a trust is it? Who are the trustees? What's the consistency, but we can generally figure out a way to put it all under one policy to make sure it's less complicated for families.
Kurt Thoennessen:Yeah, that's excellent. Having one policy to manage it all. And the way you describe it parent and child trusts and in these these very complex trees of trusts, if I can call them that, it's all very interesting. So let's talk about the coverage that you guys offer. What What is it entail and what is covered under a trustee liability policy?
Judy Pearson:Great question. So the again, very similar to DNO policy, it covers Trustees for their negligent acts for claims brought on behalf of beneficiaries. Because a trust is not a corporate entity. There's rare scenarios where another stakeholder might bring a claim, but they could. It's just not the more frequent. And we do cover those claims as well. What's not covered is everything that shouldn't be covered, meaning we're not covering the property casualty, that's another insurance. We're not covering things that can't be insured, like intentional misconduct, and, you know, gross negligence will defend until it's appropriate. So if you just look at it simply as what's either insured elsewhere, or can't be insured legally, that's what we don't cover. What we did design was one of the things I didn't get into, because I'm trying even though I do get into the weeds, try hard not to get into the weeds. But there's all these new trustee roles and responsibilities. And in most of the policies in the market outside of ours, you have to list every single role and responsibility. And there's new ones coming up every day, and you just can't keep track of it. Things like trust protector, family advisor, enforcer beneficiary advocate, I mean, it can go on and on and on. So the first thing that we did is we created a professional service that includes any role and responsibility that's named in the trust document. And then we add to it things that are not in the trust document like executor or personal representative, exactly, etc. That needs to be added if it's an ancillary role. So that's number one. So we don't have to keep guessing what the new roles and responsibilities are. Secondly, very clear to have advancement of defense costs, if there's allegations of gross, gross misconduct, intentional or gross negligence and intentional misconduct. And then the third piece that we're hearing from our clients is it's a duty to defend policy. But what happens if you've got a really good, competent legal counsel that knows everything that's going on? Isn't it easier to allow good, competent counsel to defend? So we have a kind of a panel counsel, if you don't have access to competent counsel, but if you've got really good counsel that you're working with, we will approve You know, subject to looking into it, the counsel that you're choosing, so that, you know, that's another thing that we're seeing as problematic. I think more importantly, is how we underwrite it. We don't have, we don't list all the trust, we can do a blanket trust, we can do that not only for one family that is multiple trusts. But we can also do it for what's called a professional trustee, that might be trustee of multiple families. As long as we understand what the exposure is, so we're trying to simplify the policy itself and get more intentional in what we're covering and how we're covering. So if we understand it, we can usually come up with a solution. Our target market, if you don't mind is really trust an excess of $5 million of assets under administration, that was a little bit arbitrary that we picked that number, but the thought process was $5 million is the minimum to get into a private bank. If you're in a private bank, you probably have a competent lawyer, CPA investment professional, what we're looking for is those sophisticated families that have the right advisors so that they understand the roles, responsibilities and liabilities, we have a $5 million capacity. And but the only other thing people need to know is we really don't want to insure family member trustees, unless they said earlier, they are co trustee with somebody competent, like a Trust Company. They hire somebody as agent for trustee that has a platform for the administrative aspects of trustee roles. They're in a directed trust environment, where all the roles and responsibilities have bifurcated out, and they're left with what they should be doing, which is, you know, giving guidance around legacy not so much, you know, the distribution decisions. So, other than that, you know, or if it's a family member who truly understands what they're doing. So I think those are kind of the What does it cover? What does it not cover? But we really decided to design this for all the feedback that we got when we're in the market before.
Kurt Thoennessen:So excellent. And and the other thing that I mean, is such a hot topic today is cyber. And I imagine with trustees, there is also a cyber exposure. And is there coverage for that through your policy?
Judy Pearson:That's a great question. And we do have a separate cyber policy available. When we are looking into providing cyber liability for trustees, we ran into three challenges, two of which we can help with and when we couldn't. So the first thing that we couldn't help with is multifactor authentication. Just like everywhere else, our family members need to have multi factor authentication to access any of the platforms that are used to manage their assets. What we could help with was training. Because in corporate cyber liability, you needed to confirm that all employees were trained on cyber liability attacks. And when you just can't get that the training available for trustees, who are one people, two people, five people, most of the platforms require 25 licenses. So one of the things that we did was we negotiated with one of the training platforms to offer licenses to the independent trustee Alliance. And then there if you're a member of the ITA, you can ask for one of the licenses to get trained so you can qualify. The second piece was many of our trustees hadn't thought about what do you do in the event of an incident, you need an incident report policy. So we created one that allows our trustees to kind of fill in the blanks, so that they're thinking about what they need to do as soon as there's an incident. And I think most people would say, you know, it's a matter of when not if there's going to be some kind of attack. These are wealthy families and the attackers want the information. It's not so much a third party liability because generally our families are relatively small to a big corporation, right. But you still have getting your systems up and running you still have whether there is an incident that has to get reported. You still have you know, cybercrime issues we can provide, you know, cybercrime up to two $150,000. So the, the exposure is somewhat reduced relative to a big corporation. And the pricing is analogous to that. But you still have to get the systems in place to qualify.
Kurt Thoennessen:Excellent, yes. And like you said, training is a big part of that. And so are all the other structures that go along with a cyber policy for a company. Now, it's, it's just like, getting those risk management processes in place for a company, just on a smaller scale, but you still have regulation you got to contend with? Well, this is excellent. I, you know, it's it's a very interesting topic, it's not a topic that I have, as an advisor had have discussed all that frequently in the past, although, you know, trust do come up fairly frequently, trusts LLCs, family limited partnerships. So this really excites me because it gives me another thing to another exposure to educate clients on. But also, I think family offices would love to hear more about this. And other people who are involved in managing client relationships for wealthy families. So it's, it's a great solution. So I really appreciate you sharing it with with me and our audience. So as we wrap up the conversation, I just like to ask if there's any any final words or any final thoughts that you would like to share with the private client risk and resilience audience and, and then we'll finish up with how to get in touch and, and how we can how our audience can get a policy like this placed if they'd like to.
Judy Pearson:That's great. And I have two things. Point number 180 5% of the business I see is new to the market. Think about that. It's a great new business opportunity for everybody. Secondly, as much as I try and stay out of the weeds, I get into the weeds I look at my job is helping you all learn how to talk with your clients about it, what the risks are. So I encourage you to call me if you've got a client opportunity that I can help you open the conversation and help you sell it and structure the policy. Right? I just ask that you understand that we do need information to be able to underwrite this and find the information, you can go to two places. One is www trust pneumatics.com. And nomadic, spelled N O N No ad x.com. And that's where we put information about, you know, what are the exposures, things like that you can get an application. Many of you, because you're part of larger brokers are probably already working with our partners on our platform. So if you go to balance partners, you can look in and you can find the pneumatics mga there as well. And you can reach me by my email address, J. Pearson, at balance uw.com Or My telephone number is 30391777 6x. So please call me ask your questions. I'm here to help train and get the conversation going.
Kurt Thoennessen:That's excellent. Thank you so much for all that information and for sharing your wealth of knowledge on this topic with the audience. It's clear, obviously, that you have deep knowledge. And you know, like you say, You don't you don't like to get in the weeds. But it's great when you do, because you got a lot of good, good information to share. So thank you for being on the show today, Judy.
Judy Pearson:Thank you, Kurt. I really appreciate it and look forward to seeing everybody at prma.
Kurt Thoennessen:Yes, yes, absolutely. So and thank you to everybody who is listening to this podcast today. I really appreciate it and for you taking the time to listen to to the show. And if you have any feedback or if you have any ideas for future speakers for the show, please feel free to reach out to me anytime. And if you'd like to give us a review, please do so as well. Those are super helpful. Thanks again, everybody and have a wonderful day. Take care